Advise for new U/W photographers

[Aquagato]

Hello,

Thinking of getting our first underwater camera. Want something that can take "nice" photos (wife is biologist and fussy "dry land" photographer). We understand that means a decent external flash and correction filter. Also seems most OEM cases are only rated to 40m. Most Sim Lim shop staff don't seem to know much about scuba.

So a few questions:

1. How does an external flash work when typical small digital (non SLR)cameras have no flash shoe?
2. Are these really "flashes" or another kind of illumination?
3. How much do we need to spend? Have seen a few basic deals in Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza for around $8-1000 SGD for OEM 40m case and camera (typical 4-8 mpix and 3-6 x optical zoom). But these apparently have no provision for external illumination and I would prefer a 60m case like ikelite etc. (Do some deeper wreck dives etc).

Not really interested in buying Canon 20D's or similar with several thousand dollar housings etc. This is a hobby not a profession...

Any good examples of kits under $2000 SGD? Recommendations?

Thanks.

[Thylacine]

Doubt SGD 2000 can get you much. The strobes and arm alone would be > 1 grand.

Personal advice is to start small... get a pro-sumer range of cameras with option for full manual. This is important and you need to colour correct at times while diving. I have a red filter but found it not useful. End up the best colour correction while diving is to use custom white balance. You don't get such functions with too low-end a camera.

Then choose a camera that has option for those SGD300+ casings. If you intend to dive deep next time pass the 40m mark then you can change to third-party casing. But by then maybe can upgrade camera already.

I have an older camera -- Olympus C5050. I don't use strobes, but for those who do, they can set the camera built-in flash to slave mode and have wire connections outside the casing to link to external strobes. Will let those who use strobes tell you more about them.

But with strobes and camera and casing... your baggage will really go up. Good thing you travel together, else if doing those fly and dive trips alone, it's tough juggling around big case for camera, dive bag, etc. Some even carry computer.

PS. Wont go to SLS for such stuff... unless it's a reputable shop.. there's one on ground flr.. Alan Photo.. shop front is very narrow, easy to miss. Lucky Plaza camera shops are another no no. But normally I'd go to good camera shops like Cathay Photo or MS Color for the camera and casing. Strobes think you gotta get from dive shops that does photography. There's another one that I just can't remember... it's Scuba something.

[jabberjaw]

ScubaCam you mean?

[Aquagato]

Spoke to Scubacam - they don't sell cameras. Only cases and strobes etc...

[Thylacine]

ya think it's Scubacam... they dont sell cameras. That's right. But they do know their casings and strobes. Maybe can speak to them first, then get the camera from a good camera shop. They can probably recommend as well.

[DrMike]

My advice is buy a point and shoot camera and housing. But expect to replace both in a few years time when the camera breaks (point and shoots are basically disposable these days and you wont be able to get a new replacement to fit your housing in a year or so time. So you end up as I have with two point and shoot housings that I cant get replacement cameras to fit and two dead cameras. Of course you could go 2nd hand. Bt point and shoots are developing so quickly getting better and better every year.

Anyway, my advice is modern cheapish point and shoot with case combo (I like the sony W7 (although there are cheaper ones) and sony housing, rated to 40m, Ive taken it to 60m, camera available in 5 or 7mpx)

Spend your money on a good strobe. Without a strobe pics will be crap - period. Expect to keep the strobe for use in years to come on other cameras. I have a Inon D2000 and D2000S both strobes fire from a slave signal (slave cable sticks to front of camera housing and detects your camera flash, light travels up cable to strobe and triggers it to fire. Scubacam can sell you a D2000 with slave cable that will fit to most point and shoot housings.

approx prices;
Sony W5/W7 - S$600-900
Housing - S$500
D2000S and slave cable -S$800

Dont recall strobe arm costs - also available from Scubacam.

Alternatively go to Sea and Sea dealer (building opp Funan) and buy a ready made combo, camera,housing, strobe, arm....IIRC well under 2k

[Aquagato]

Thanks Dr Mike,

Thats just the kind of advice I was looking for. Especially how the strobes fire, was curious about that.

When I look at the "sea & sea" cameras in US webstores the cameras themselves look like no brand cheapies, but they are attractive and well priced packages. In your opinion are they any good or better with an OEM brand?

[DrMike]

Originally Posted by Aquagato

Thanks Dr Mike,

Thats just the kind of advice I was looking for. Especially how the strobes fire, was curious about that.

When I look at the "sea & sea" cameras in US webstores the cameras themselves look like no brand cheapies, but they are attractive and well priced packages. In your opinion are they any good or better with an OEM brand?

No idea to be honest - the only thing I look for is a good size Mpixel. Other than that I wouldnt know a good camera if it crept up behind me and bit my bottom.

Having said that only a few companies make lenses and sensors so although the outsides and brand names differ the inside gubbings are quite likely the same. So I suspect the pic quality (at least for the kind of basic point and shoot stuff Im doing) is likely to not differ much camera to camera for the same mpx size and same lense size. - But I could be talking bo11ocks, there are others here on this board that know much much more than me about this kind of stuff.

[OrangeBloke]

One way you might want to approach this is to decide first of all on what sort of camera you want. This could just be a matter of taste or depend on how much you want to get out of it. Then look for a specific make and check out http://www.digideep.com/ to see if there are housings available for it.

One thing that you might want to consider when looking at a camera is does it have at least one of, but preferably all of, manual, aperture priority and shutter priority modes. Point and shoot mode rarely gets it right under water. A decent macro mode can be a bonus if not using an SLR/DSLR

If you're comfortable using a camera on land and like to be able to switch lenses then you'll need to look at an SLR/DSLR but this'll push your costs up well above your budget. Taking pictures underwater differs a fair bit from land so you may want to start with something a bit more mid range and later look at wet lenses to mix things about a bit. As Dr Mike said, you'll more than likely upgrade kit after a while so it's best to start with something you won't mind forgetting about later.

The housing prices differ quite a bit. Some camera manufacturers make reasonably priced housings for their cameras - Sony, Olympus, Canon and Nikon to name just a few. Housings by the likes of Sea&Sea, Ikelite, Seacam, etc can often be more expensive than the camera inside but like so many things, you get what you pay for and the quality is often a lot higher.

As regards the strobes get a good one as they'll last. There are different ways to synch them to the housing. Some can be synched using a sync cord that is internally connected to the flash shoe on the camera, others may use a fibre optic cable connected from the outside of the housing to the strobe that synchs when the internal flash fires, and some will sync using slave sensors that again fire the strobe when the internal flash fires. Which option you can choose depends on what the housing will allow and strobe housing compatibility. Cost varies depending on size but if I were you I'd get a decent sized strobe with adjustable power settings so you can cover a better range of subjects

[Aquagato]

Thanks again for the good advice and web link.

I want 60 m ability so I'm forgetting OEM cases. Scubacam behind SLS has some 60 m housings and strobes. The fibre optic sensor type seems the go as few little digital cameras have flash shoes. Not going to a SLR or DSLR for scuba, can't imagine the grief if a Canon 30D got flooded!

Like others say 1 problem is rapid obselesence. But told that when popular cameras are taken "off the market" in SE ASia they can still be found for quite a while in Europe or the USA where people aren't so gadget crazy...

Seems like $1100 SGD for a strobe set, $4-600 for a nice 60 m case then maybe $5-900 for a decent megapixel camera. So maybe $2000-2600 SGD should have a decent basic setup.

Still curious about ready made set ups from "sea & sea" etc. Any tech type people here who can comment? They look like good, low hassle deals for a nice price - but my concern is the cameras have no known brand and one dealer in Lucky Plaza (also had a Sea & Sea for sale) reckoned they were junk and not to touch em! Of course he had others...